Source:   PBS Newshour
Pubdate:  28 Jul 1997

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/congress/julydec97/faceoff_728.html

INTRAPARTY POLITICS
JULY 28, 1997

TRANSCRIPT

Sen. Jesse Helms opposes President Clinton's nomination of Gov. William
Weld (R MA) as next ambassador to Mexico. Have bipartisan gestures been
thwarted by internal divison? After a backgrounder by Kwame Holman, Jim
Lehrer discusses Weld's chances of becoming ambassador with two political
journalists. 

JIM LEHRER: Mike Barnicle is a columnist of the Boston Globe and a 
NewsHour regular. Ralph Hallow is senior national correspondent for the 
Washington Times.  Mike Barnicle, does Weld think he can overcome Jesse 
Helms, or is something else at work here? 

MIKE BARNICLE, Boston Globe: Oh, I think thereıs probably a couple of 
different ball games going on here. I think the ball game that heıs playing 
withthe inner ball game with Jesse Helms, the Senate, and the President, but 
I also think heıs probably talking a lot to people who live in Scranton, 
Pennsylvania; Concord, New Hampshire; Des Moines, Iowayou know, 
Concord, New Hampshire, where the first presidential primary is going to be 
held in a couple of years. Heıs got ambitions I think beyond Mexico, far beyond 
Jesse Helms, so, yes, thereıs a lot going on here. 

JIM LEHRER: Do you agree with that, Mr. Hallow? 

RALPH HALLOW, Washington Times: Oh, yes. There are twothereıs the
real reason that he did this, not the reason he said. The reason he said, of 
course, was to campaign fulltime in the United States Senate to get those folks 
to pressure Sen. Helms to schedule a hearing. The real reason behind that is 
that he wants his Lieutenant Governor, Paul Salucci, to have fourteen/sixteen 
months in office as the incumbent governor to give him an edge over Joe 
Kennedy or whoever the Democrats 

 JIM LEHRER: Whoever the Democrats want. 

 RALPH HALLOW: But the real reason behind that iswas I think revealed by 
what the governor said. In attacking Sen. Helms, he said he doesnıt represent 
what I represent in the Republican Party. This ishis objection is not my drug 
policy. This is about the future of the Republican Party.  And I think what we 
saw here was the opening salvo in the upcoming fight of the liberals and 
centrists in the Republican Party to take that partythey would put ittake it 
backI think theyıd say. If not, in next yearısthe 2000 election for the 
presidencyat least sometime later. 

JIM LEHRER: So you believe too then, Mike Barnicle, that Bill Weld wants to 
be President of the United States. 

MIKE BARNICLE: Sure. Yes, I think he does. And I think, you know, he  looks 
around, and he saw Michael Dukakis run for President from the governorship 
of Massachusetts, and if he could, who couldnıt, and I think he sees Bill 
Clinton, who heıs known a long time as  President of the United States and 
heıs smart enough and arrogant enough, and selfassured enough to think 
why not me and why not now and why not start today? 

JIM LEHRER: All right. Now, letıs go to the other side of the equation, Mr. 
Hallow, and thatıs Jesse Helms. Whatıs motivating him to hold this up like 
that and to refuse to have even a hearing on this nomination? 

RALPH HALLOW: Senator Helms does not like what this governor stands for 
when it comes to drug policy doesnıt think itıs appropriate to have the United 
States ambassador to Mexico, where we have one of the biggest problems, that 
is, the importation of drugs from Mexico, a man who is more than soft on 
drugs. He is a libertarian on drug use, believes that drugs should be 
decriminalized or legalized. 

His record as a United States attorney ranked him, I think, in the bottom two 
or three when it came to drug prosecutions, so his personal philosophy on 
drugs carried over to his official duties, so itıs argued. On top of that, 
conservatives in the Republican Party would be displeased to see a man like 
Governor Weld, who has been so inyourface about his views compared to 
those of what Republicans like to think of as their mainstream conservative 
views. 

JIM LEHRER: But that explains why you would be opposed. But why would he 
notwhy would he not even allow a hearing on the nomination? Why is that 
big a thing to Jesse Helms? 

RALPH HALLOW: The course of events were a slap in the face to Sen. Helms 
from the beginning.  Before the White Housefirst of all, the governor 
shopped around a job with this administrationwanted the attorney generalıs 
job, Janet Renoıs job. When it was decided that he was offered three 
ambassadorships, and they settled on Mexico. Before the administration had a 
chance, the White House had a chance to clear that with Sen. Helms, which is 
normally whatıs done behind the scenes.  You go to the chairman of the 
committee, say, is this going to work, is this going to fly, is this okay? The 
governor leaked word that that was going to be his appointment from the 
Clinton administration. That was a calculated mistake, I believe, because I 
think he was less interested in the ambassadorship than, as I say, in leading the 
liberaling of the Republican Party in 2000 and beyond. 

JIM LEHRER: Mike Barnicle, how do you read Jesse Helmsıs motivations? 

MIKE BARNICLE: Well, I think itıs, you know, hard for anyone other than 
Jesse Helms to read his actual motivation. I think part of it is pretty basic, 
much more basic than what has just been said, and it gets to the root of human 
nature.  During the course of his campaign for the Senate last fall against John 
Kerrey during one of the debates Gov. Weld was asked whether or not as a 
sitting Republican member of the Senate, whether he would vote for Jesse 
Helms to retain the chairmanship of the Foreign Relations Committee, and he 
pretty much said no, went out of his way to say no, and indicated that why he 
wouldnıt vote for him; thatas he did last weekthat Jesse Helms didnıt 
represent what Bill Weld represented. So now what goes around comes 
around.  And I imagine Jesse Helms is sitting there, saying, fine, you wouldnıt 
vote for me to retain the chairmanship, Iım the chairman; see you later. 

JIM LEHRER: What about the issue? What do you think the viability of the
issue that Weld is raisinghe raised todayhey, look, I donıt play by the
Washington rules, the Washington rulesas Mr. Hallow just saidyouıre
supposed to check with the committee. Nobody did that. Heıs playing it his
rules, his way. Is that a winning selling point, do you think, for William Weld,
out in the country? 

MIKE BARNICLE: Well, just as an average television viewer and citizen all I 
can think of is what I saw on the television during the Republican 
Convention in Houston five years ago when Jesse Helmsıs wing of  the 
Republican Party took the presidency away from George Bush, I think, and that 
they frightened a great deal of Americans, who were watching that 
convention. I think Weld is thinking of that, and I think heıs thinking of the 
larger country beyond Washington, beyond this  insider baseball, this inside 
Senate politics, this inside administration politics, and heıs trying to tell people 
who are listeningif any are listeningthat heıs a moderate guy; that heıs not 
Pat Buchanan; that heıs not Newt Gingrich; that heısot Jesse Helms; and maybe 
the Republican Partyif theyıre ever to have a chance to win nationally across 
the boardtheyıd better start looking at people like him. 

JIM LEHRER: Is there mileage in that, Mr. Hallow? 

RALPH HALLOW: No, I donıt think so. With all due respect to Mike Barnicle,
the fact is that the Republican Party scored great successes when it had a
conservative standard bearer, if not Jesse Helms, Ronald Reagan, for example.
Nixon was thought to be a conservative, at least by liberals. It took over the
Congresson the conservative platform. 

JIM LEHRER: But about the pointthe original question I asked Mikewhich 
is: do you think his argument, Weldıs argument with the public that hereıs a 
United States Senator, wonıt even give me a hearing, is going to sell out in the 
country? 

RALPH HALLOW: I think itıll sell, and heıs got it calculated rightitıll sell 
enough with the people "he" wants it to sell to, to get his name known and 
remembered nationally. 

JIM LEHRER: As somebody who made this case, you mean? Heıs out there
fighting and 

RALPH HALLOW: Yes. Iım a rebel with a cause. Most people I think who 
know Weld say heıs a rebela liberal without a cause, but the idea that Iım 
selling myself as a rebel with a causeand Iım not your average Washington 
bureaucrat or conformist, and thatıs nice; that has a nice appeal. How far it will 
go, I donıt know. 

JIM LEHRER: Do you think heıs going to be the U.S. ambassador to Mexico, in 
a word? 

RALPH HALLOW: No. 

JIM LEHRER: Do you, Mike Barnicle? 

MIKE BARNICLE: No. 

JIM LEHRER: Thank you, gentlemen, very much. 

RALPH HALLOW: A pleasure.