Pubdate: Mon, 30 Apr 2001
Source: Fox News Network (US)
Show: The O'Reilly Factor
Copyright: 2001 Fox News Network, Inc.
Host: Bill O'Reilly
Guest: Daniel Bagdade


O'REILLY: The "Government Blunders" segment tonight, 33-year-old Rochelle 
Pennex is a drug addict who has given birth to 12 children, five of whom 
tested positive for cocaine at birth, all of whom have physical and mental 
problems. Last month Miss Pennex gave birth again, this time to a baby girl 
that died shortly afterward.  Pennex tested positive for cocaine at the 
time of birth.

The authorities in Detroit brought Rochelle Pennex into court, but a judge 
dismissed the case.

Joining us now from Detroit is attorney general -- is attorney Daniel 
Bagdade, the court-appointed lawyer for the dead baby.

Well, counselor, we appreciate you coming on in, and this is another 
dismissed the case.  Tell us about that.

DANIEL BAGDADE, BABY ZARIA'S ATTORNEY: Well, the judge dismissed the case 
only after the baby died.  To say that the judge dismissed the case and 
give the inference that the judge was nonfeeling about the situation is 
wrong.  We had a court hearing last week only after the baby died.  And it 
was at that point in time that the neglect case against the mother was dropped.

O'REILLY: Oh, and why was it dropped if the mother tested positive for 
cocaine at the time of birth?  The baby was born two months premature. It 
seems to me that might be negligent homicide.  Am I wrong?

BAGDADE: Well, as I understand it, the Oakland County prosecutor's office 
is looking into potential criminal charges against her.  But with regards 
to the neglect case itself, there was no ward.  The child had died. So you 
don't have a neglect case any more.

O'REILLY: All right.  So a person who died -- I got you, so it's a 

This woman, 12 children, five born addicted to cocaine, all of them have 
problems.  What should be done, in your opinion, with her?

BAGDADE: Well, I think there definitely has to be some accountability, 
Bill, with regards to mothers who pass along their drug addiction to 
fetuses.  As I understand it, in Michigan right now, the legislature is 
looking at potential laws that would criminalize such an action.

Michigan has been very progressive in passing criminal laws dealing with 
very new issues.  After all, don't forget, we're the state that gave yo the 
Nathaniel Abraham law that allowed an 11-year-old to be prosecuted as an adult.

O'REILLY: All right.  I, I, I, I'm not -- I am blaming the system here, 
because this woman, obviously, is a child abuser.  And she still has 
custody of -- I don't know, all of them, I guess, I...

BAGDADE: No, she does not.

O'REILLY: She has custody of some of them, I know that.


O'REILLY: Or did up until two weeks ago when they sent -- they found her 
and a bunch of people and some of these kids in a house with no 
electricity, a crack den.

BAGDADE: There -- The children are currently out of her custody...

O'REILLY: All of them?

BAGDADE: ... they are currently undergoing a permanent wardship trial 
against the mother.

O'REILLY: OK, but now listen to me.  This woman gave birth to 12 children, 
five were addicted to cocaine.  She should have been charged with child 
abuse on one -- on the first one, the first one that was born.  You 
see?  She has not been prosecuted by the state of Michigan, so she's done 
it over and over and over, and now we have a dead baby. And you can't tell 
me, counselor, that the state of Michigan's doing its job and protecting 
babies from a woman like this. It's not.

BAGDADE: Well, again, there has to be some accountability for passing along 
this drug addiction, and...

O'REILLY: But it hasn't been -- they haven't done anything.

BAGDADE: Well, I'm not sure that many states have.

O'REILLY: Well, it doesn't matter.  I mean, come on, you're the lawyer for 
this dead baby.  You should be out there screaming that this woman should 
be in jail.  This woman should be in jail.

BAGDADE: Well, there are no laws that she's broken so how can she...

O'REILLY: What?  Child abuse laws.

BAGDADE: Well, but she has not been charged with the child...

O'REILLY: I know, that's what I'm telling you.  There's no will on the part 
of the state of Michigan to stop this woman.

BAGDADE: Well, again, all I can say to you, Bill, is that the legislature, 
as I understand it, is looking into passing laws that would make it a crime 
to pass along this drug addiction.

O'REILLY: Well, maybe they should keep looking in...


O'REILLY: ... because baby Zaria, is that her name?


O'REILLY: In the ground.  Dead.


O'REILLY: Well, counselor, we appreciate -- I hope you do something 
(UNINTELLIGIBLE), I hope you lead that charge.  This woman should have been 
in jail 11 children ago.  And we appreciate your time.  Thank you very much.

We'll be right back.


O'REILLY: Time now for the "Most Ridiculous Item of the Day." As you may 
know, Pardongate principal Denise Rich is making the media rounds, but so 
far avoiding THE FACTOR.  Denise, Denise, come on in here.

On a Barbara Walters broadcast, she denied ever having sex with Bill 
Clinton. Now, think about it.  Isn't it a bit ridiculous that one of the 
main questions to Miss Rich is whether she had sex with a former president? 
The Clinton legacy continues.

And finally tonight, the mail, crates full of it upon my return from 
vacation.  And even though I can't answer the letters personally, I read 
many of them, and I appreciate all of them.

Big reaction to our report on day care, kids being more aggressive than 
other children, and high taxes driving families to use day care.

Julie Mitchell, Cornith, Mississippi: "O'Reilly, government is not to blame 
for day care, parents are.  Most parents are too selfish to trade in their 
luxury cars or fancy homes in order to nurture their own children."

Megan Kiel, Anchorage, Alaska: "Mr. O'Reilly, I'm a head teacher in a 
toddler center and can attest to the aggressiveness of some children in the 
day care environment.  The problem is the high turnover rate among 
caregivers.  This confuses and frustrates the children."

Jan Achay, Kailua-Kona, Hawaii: "Aloha, Bill.  You are way off on the day 
care issue.  I'm a preschool teacher and know that not all mothers are 
great. Aggressive kids come to us that way.  I've seen a huge drop in 
behavioral standards at home in the past 30 years."

Teresa Johnson, Spring, Texas: "Mr. O., you handled the discussion well, 
but I disagree with the idea that taxes are the main cause of women 
entering the job market.  Our family lives frugally in a nice home on a 
modest income.  People have a choice."

Remember, Miss Johnson, that you live in a place that has no state income 
tax and where housing prices are fairly reasonable.

Josh Jensen, Orlando, Florida: "There is nothing we would like more than to 
raise our children in a single-income home.  But due to outrageous taxes, 
it is impossible."

And once again, Mr. Jensen lives in a no-income-tax state.

Suzie Woy, Irvine, California: "Bill, yours is the only voice in the media 
I've heard that is making the connection between taxation and the impact on 
the family.  Bravo."

Zon Zastrow, Edmonds, Washington: "Mr. O'Reilly, you don't play fair. If 
anyone disagrees with you, they are rudely shut down.  We tune in to hear 
their ideas, not yours."

Robert Ashworth, Wilkesboro, North Carolina: "O'Reilly, you still try to 
pass off opinion as dogma.  I am not a moron for believing we bombed the 
Chinese embassy in Belgrade on purpose."

Well, I stand by my opinion, Mr. Ashworth.

Dennis DeJulio, Aurora, Colorado: "O'Reilly, you have lost your edge. Your 
arguments are purely emotional.  THE FACTOR was fun while it lasted."

Debra Madison, Tulsa, Oklahoma: "Bill, Arthel rules.  She carries herself 
with class even when in heated debate with you.  I'm glad you paid for her 
valet parking in Los Angeles."

Deborah, don't accuse me of that.  I would never pay for Arthel's valet 
parking.  She needs to walk and clear her head.

Philip Moorman, Owensboro, Kentucky: "Bill, your interruptions are very 
rude. You could learn a few things from Arthel."

And Cheryl Smith, Flowery Branch, Georgia: "Bill, I enjoy THE FACTOR, but 
it is turn off the TV week, so I'll keep track of you on the Internet."

Cheryl, THE FACTOR isn't TV.  It is real life.  You can't turn it off.

And if you would like to sound off, the e-mail address is    U.S. mail, drop us a line at THE 
FACTOR, Fox News Channel, 1211 Avenue of the Americas, New York, New York 

And all together now all over the world, name and town, name and town, name 
and town if you wish to opine.

Then there's the Web site.


ANN ROBINSON, HOST: You are the weakest link.  Goodbye.

O'REILLY: Is that the Wicked Witch of the West, or what?  I mean, that 
woman -- if I was on that program, oh, man.

All right.  My column this week for is about a little 
discussion I had in Tonapah, Arizona, the west desert, about President 
Clinton. It's a really -- you'll like this column.  You can dial it up on 
our Web site, along with all kinds of other promotions and Talking Points 
memo, all kinds of stuff.

And that is it for us today.  Good to be back.  As always, we thank you for 
watching.  I'm Bill O'Reilly.  I missed you.  Hope to see you again next time.
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