Pubdate: Sun, 18 Nov 2001
Source: The DrugSense Chat Room
Note: This, and the series of forums, is being archived at MAP as an
exception to our web only source posting policies.
Related: For more info, visit,,,, and
Also: Chris Conrad will entertain questions online at the NY Times Forum 
from 5 to 6 PM Pacific Standard Time, 8 to 9 PM Eastern, on Wednesday, 28 
Nov 2001


Chris Conrad: Greetings to all. Thanks for being here.

Dean Becker: So much to ask, but what are we to do about the DEA raid?

Chris Conrad: As per the DEA issue, there are three fronts active right 
now, the anti-hemp move, the anti-states rights on medical marijuana, and 
the ongoing anti-marijuana user crusade.

allan: Chris- You have done Art Bell in the past, is he still available to 
our crew of reform "experts"?

Chris Conrad: I'll have to get back to him and find out. He was very 
thorough on the one show I participated in.

Chris Conrad: I'm not sure about the gift, but as per the hemp issue we 
need people to lobby DEA and officials by Dec 10 via

[Note: See Alert: Challenge The DEA 4 Dec 2001 at ]

Chris Conrad: The medical marijuana patients' and states' rights issue is 
trying to resolve what we should do before the next raid on a club and 
again what to do afterwards.

allan: Chris- the moves by the DEA and other fed agencies is being seen by 
many (us) as un-American, is this a pursuable avenue for debate/action?

Chris Conrad: On the un-American issue of the DEA attack on CBCs, that is 
potentially very strong. This is not a good time to attack Bush, whose 
attention is elsewhere, but we should pin that onto Ashcroft.

Chris Conrad: Problem with Ashcroft is that the Senate hearings were very 
big on "will you enforce federal law despite your personal beliefs" and 
he's using that as a fallback.

Diane Fornbacher: We here at tri-state DPF [ ] were thinking 
about having a demo outside of Philly's DEA office with hemp foods like the 
SSDP [ ] kids did with the Bronner products.

Chris Conrad: I think a bust for someone eating hemp foods would expose the 
ludicrous nature of the regulation.

Richard Lake: The columnists seem to be having a field day with Ashcroft. 
He is not looking good in the press....

Diane Fornbacher: It is truly a shame that they attacked medicinal users in 
the first place but especially now, what horrible opportunism and bad taste!

Chris Conrad: Yeah, and with Ashcroft there will be lots of opportunities 
to build coalitions with other movements, like right to life and right to die.

Trippin981819254: Chris...of all the obstacles keeping marijuana reform 
from losing out against prohibition... what's the biggest obstacle?

Chris Conrad: Biggest obstacle is the pork barrel of the drug war, the fact 
that it's a sacred cow. Ashcroft is supposed to be Christian, yet he seems 
to be using the DW as its own religion. We should attack him with the Bible 
(Matthew 6, e.g..)

Chris Conrad: I think we should have rallies with "Ashcroft = antichrist" 
and specific Bible citings.

Chris Conrad: For example, 1:Timothy has a great quote, as does Genesis, as 
does the New Testament.

Diane Fornbacher: Coalition is the best way to build a strong fiber to any 
movement.... strange bedfellows make for powerful change

Chris Conrad: When one tries to unite our movement one wins resentment as 
well as support.

Chris Conrad: We judge people by their actions, not the opinions of others, 

Chris Conrad: I hope it is the power of truth and ideas whose time have come.

Chris Conrad: Birdseed still seems to be exempt under DEA's proposed regs, 
so it has to be food.

Ben Masel: Back to the days of cleaning birdseed for human consumption.

Chris Conrad: Now, that would be an interesting raid. Also remember your 
death penalty salad, Ben?

Ben Masel: 60,000 sprouts.

Chris Conrad: That kind of absurd rigidity will ultimately help us.

Chris Conrad: This is an opportunity to open new fronts , like an eat-in at 
the DEA: media-genic stuff.

Chris Conrad: Ben, you're a pro at that kind of brain storming, and 
Ashcroft is very vulnerable.

Chris Conrad: I think that if we can tie the failures of the DW to Ashcroft 
instead of Bush,

Chris Conrad: we have the potential of a "Nixon goes to china" by the 
president himself.

Chris Conrad: The big companies have the most to lose, so they are 
difficult to activate.

Chris Conrad: We should have small companies, individuals with no links to 
pot underground, to do that civil disobedience.,

Chris Conrad: A small company also has the David vs Goliath image in the 
media, which is good.

Neil: It seems to me we should make a 'fall-guy' out of the policy itself, 
rather than targeting a person. There's always another Ashcroft sitting in 
the wings

Chris Conrad: Sure, there are always others in the wings, but we need to 
connect the issue to the flawed AG.

mrfreedom: If a coalition would be helpful and the best target would be 
food stuffs from hemp, what about enticing the supplement market giants?

mrfreedom: I'm quite serious, the first persons to use supplements are 
always bodybuilders, athletes and the like. Certainly, hemp would be 
considered a boon considering its high digestible protein and its higher 
than flax seed oil in alpalipoic fatty acids.

Chris Conrad: MrFreedom has it right that having a celebrity behind the 
cause is invaluable.

Chris Conrad: Also, people like Rep Thielen of Hawaii, who is using 
hempseed oil to help heal her melanoma.

Trippin981819254: you have a plan in mind that would crumble DEA 
policy and Ashcroft at the same time.. like niel was saying?

Chris Conrad: I have an idea, but the question is one of resources and courage.

Chris Conrad: Basically, we could have a Bible belt attack on him as being 
an antichrist, and there is Biblical prophecy to back it up.

Chris Conrad: If we weaken or destroy his fundamentalist support, he is 
isolated and we paint him as a lunatic.

Chris Conrad: Remember that Ashcroft lost office to a dead man. That tells 
us a lot.

Al Mites: well there's always Woody Harrelson for a celebrity to tie a face 

Diane Fornbacher: Woody is a nice guy but are there more celebs who would 
be willing to step forward?

Diane Fornbacher: Preferably ones who didn't star in natural born killers? 
I mean I like that movie myself but it tends to scare off the mainstream 
folks who don't dig the gore.

Chris Conrad: Woody is great, but he's been typecast on this issue. 
Schwartzeneger or somebody would be better.

Ben Masel: Black Tie Civil Disobedience: Gourmet Hemp Dinner on Capitol 
Hill. Can we still get to Stuart Mott?

Chris Conrad: Black tie civil disobedience would be even more powerful if 
it was done by Republicans or their funders.

Chris Conrad: The problem at the moment is that it is very easy for them to 
paint dissent as being unpatriotic.

Chris Conrad: Police officers protesting the waste of their resources would 
be good, too.

Chris Conrad: If the economy tanks, then we have a very powerful basis to 
pull the plug on DW enforcement.

Chris Conrad: Or at least prioritization; like why go after patients and 
food companies? And why go after potheads?

Al Mites: Its not far from, there's been a recession coming all year Sept 
11th simply threw on the gasoline

Chris Conrad: There is still the equal right argument, too

Chris Conrad: Yeah, Sept 11 changed everything, yet everything stayed the 

Trippin981819254: Chris, if the economy tanks would we get more support 
from industry or more resistance?

Chris Conrad: If the economy tanks, then we have a very powerful basis to 
pull the plug on DW enforcement.

Chris Conrad: If the Afghani action is over soon, the exuberance may cause 
a stock market rebound, so we have to be ready for that.

Chris Conrad: The other thing about the timing of the raid is that it was 
designed to take advantage of Sept 11, and people don't like that.

Chris Conrad: While the media was looking at war, terrorism and anthrax, 
the DEA was exploiting the cover to attack the sick and dying.

Chris Conrad: What did Jesus say "Blessed are they who comfort the sick and 
visit the prisoners"? Ashcroft is antichrist in attitude.

Ben Masel: Letters on Hemp Foods should go not just to DEA, bit to Tommy 
Thompson. FDA is under HHS, and Tommy's been pro-hemp since I ran against 
him in 1990.

Chris Conrad: Key point, Ben: Finding and supporting allies is even more 
important than targeting enemies of freedom.

Neil: Is there any point in Canadians (me being one) sending letters to the 

Chris Conrad: Canadians should cite NAFTA.

Chris Conrad: This administration has trashed every other treaty, but not 
NAFTA. Use it.

Chris Conrad: It's also curious the anti-science position of this 
administration. Like ignoring NAS on medical marijuana.

Chris Conrad: The argument on NAFTA is the non-drug point: they set a 
baseline for rat feces in food, they should have a realistic baseline for 
THC as well.

Chris Conrad: Zero tolerance is not a baseline, it's a moralistic dictate 
and unreasonable restriction.

Al Mites: another I've been thinking of is the recent decision to 
decriminalize Marijuana in Great Britain

Chris Conrad: Too bad the US is not very susceptible to world opinion.

mrfreedom: no the US is very susceptible to ECONOMIC opinions

Chris Conrad: The US govt just periodically whips them into line with a war 
or two, but then acts as a renegade state.

Chris Conrad: Yeah, like the freedom to farm act, eh Ben?

Chris Conrad: Also any Euro state is said to be "different than America", 
like Netherlands policy for example.

Neil: true, but the close physical and political ties to Canada make it's 
stance harder to ignore than, say, Britain.

Chris Conrad: Canada -- heck, most US citizens think it's the second 
largest state!

Chris Conrad: We need to resurrect Tom and Rollie [ see 
http// (Rainbow Campground Shooting) back into the 
national spotlight somehow.

Chris Conrad: It should be a victim's rights issue, but who wants to be a 

Dean Becker: Have the autopsies been released, is there not a major concern 
still there?

Chris Conrad: I've not seen anything official, but there do seem to be 
inconsistencies in the two that have been done.

Chris Conrad: So, we have the victims and we know who the bullies are. That 
is what we need to communicate to the media.

Frank: Everybody is victimized by the WoD

Chris Conrad: Class action is a tough one. I wish we had a few civil 
attorneys to work with.

Chris Conrad: I think there are anti-discrimination and anti-defamation 
actions that would be important civil law, as well.

mrfreedom: In all of the plans I have seen to combat the war on hemp the 
economic plan has never been serioulsy considered; add the positive health 
benefits with the recognized benefits of medical marijuana and I think this 
would produce a significant 2 pronged economic attack

Chris Conrad: Back to MrFreedom, there has been a lot of energy expended on 
fighting for the hemp economic front.

Chris Conrad: We've moved a long way with the economic argument, and 
McCaffrey predicted hemp could never be viable.

Chris Conrad: That's why they had to go after hempseed: It is economically 
profitable even as an import. Fiber needs domestic supply, so they can hold 
the line on it by blocking cultivation.

Diane Fornbacher: It'd be great to feed McCaffrey a hemp burger

Chris Conrad: Back in the 60s they used to talk about slipping politicians 
acid, now we're talking about slipping them a hempburger.

Ben Masel: Don't slip them anything. Invite to a formal dinner.

Al Mites: slipping them acid would simply create for cannon fodder to 
attack those within any legalization movement

Chris Conrad: Hey, I don't think those guys could handle acid and am 
against it, it was a humorous reference.

Ben Masel: Don't need pro-bono for civil rights litigation. Govt pays fees.

Chris Conrad: Well, Ben, how do we get the attorneys? I know that patients 
in Cal should qualify as a class with legal status.

Chris Conrad: Anyway, I think that creating alliances and media sympathy 
are key now

mrfreedom: yes let maintain our focus; legalize hemp and hemp foodstuffs, 
legalize marijuana for medicinal use, encourage the economic impact this 
would have

Chris Conrad: Lawsuits would be helpful, but Reichquest is still the chief 
tribunal of the land.

Al Mites: contacting some of the NORML lawyers might be worth a beginning 
for a class action suit

Chris Conrad: The real question is how do we get our elected officials to 
grow a spine?

Diane Fornbacher: I think the most important thing to do here before any 
action is taken is to remember to forgive the ignorant.

Chris Conrad: Good point, Diane, but it's easier to forgive the person who 
hurt you than the psycho who is hurting you.

Chris Conrad: If the DEA slams the clubs, more and more patients will be 
willing to do so.

JayB: our electeds need to be able to see the scene that we see.

Chris Conrad: I agree, Jay. And we need to communicate how important and 
urgent the situation is.

mrfreedom: Question? since the gov gives out marijuana cigs could they be 
held financially responsible for the deaths of those that don't get this 

Chris Conrad: Question: How come they can lie about marijuana but we can't 
tell the truth about hemp?

Diane Fornbacher: I understand Chris and surely I have a healthy amount of 
anger toward those actions but it is hard to take action that'll make a 
difference if blinded by rage, that's all.

Chris Conrad: I think it is always better to come from a place of calm 
deliberation than from pain and anger, Diane.

Al Mites: Difficult to do Neil, as most doctors have been told if they 
prescribe Marijuana officially or otherwise they will have their license 

Chris Conrad: Interesting, Al. Seems they need to be educated on the first 
amendment as well as about MMJ.

Chris Conrad: So what's the deal with Pacifica? Are they saved? Are they an 
ally again?

JayB: the solution must be political.  The truth about the CSA and how it 
targets with political whimsy.

Chris Conrad: It also has to be political to have lasting effect. And that 
is where we are weakest because of the stigmatization we bear.

TigressTeaser: Why don't you make jokes of their lies and keep telling the 

Chris Conrad: Tigress, wit and mockery are indeed powerful tools. I use 
them all the time.

Chris Conrad: The problem is getting our story out there; we know how to 
tell it.

JayB: The tyranny of the CSA.  The targeting of old nonconformist hipsters 
with this meatax is the truth.

Chris Conrad: CSA reminds me of the Confederate States of America, there 
has to be a way to spin that.

JayB: the CSA will fall again.  (apologies to my southern brothers)

Chris Conrad: There are probably a lot of tools that have been handed to us 
in the recent flush of laws, but finding them will be tough.

Chris Conrad: I still think that we should be able to use the RICO laws 
against CIA and DEA, but their immunity blocks it.

Chris Conrad: That is a point of vulnerability for them: They break the law 
yet enforce others to obey it. Like the Taliban.

Chris Conrad: Money, money, money, money. I like to use adversity, but that 
is a tough one.

Al Mites: yet once again the problem is how to get the story out, there is 
more than enough to tell

Chris Conrad: It seems there is always the element of using the "untold 
story" approach to get publicity. It worked for hemp in the early 90s.

Chris Conrad: How deep do you think the penetration of hemp knowledge and 
name recognition go? 40% of total population?

Chris Conrad: See, the Bible predicted that liars and hypocrites would 
enforce abstinence. That's why it's such a powerful tool vs Ashcroft.

kaptinemo: Excuse me, but the problem seems to me to be the fact that the 
Feds have a very wide comfort zone. When they go after the clinics, they 
generally don't have to wade through a phalanx of patients in wheelchairs 
calling them Nazis...with the news cameras rolling

Chris Conrad: Our problem is that most of the media remembers something 
about hemp, so they think it's old news, which is an oxymoron.

Frank: the hempcar generated a lot of good coverage.

Neil: TV images is what we need. The power of the visual is undeniable. Not 
that I would wish this to happen, but we need something like video of armed 
DEA officers beating up sick people to rip off their pot.

Chris Conrad: A new angle is a new story to them.

Al Mites: to my knowledge there's a planned March on DC in April, might get 
some attention to tell the untold story, however I don't know its current state

Diane Fornbacher: How about a J4J across the USA? I know it would be hard 
so patients can go across their state and sort of "pass the torch" to the 
next state's patients.... an idea

Neil: How about a torch relay - a torch that burns hemp oil, or course.

Chris Conrad: I'd even like to see a fundraising walkathon.

netizen_james: You get that good 'lady liberty' imagery with a torch! :-)

Ben Masel: take a lot more hemp oil than the car.

Chris Conrad: Maybe we should mix some alcohol in with the hemp oil to 
extend it.

Chris Conrad: Also mixing hemp with alcohol has a certain symbolic resonance.

Al Mites: perhaps a patient only fundraiser, use only those who would be 
helped by marijuana medically able to participate with those of us who are 
healthy organizing

Chris Conrad: Resonance also reminds me of resin, which has a role here, too.

Chris Conrad: There is the question of the ability to organize it, the 
ability to draw enough participants and the ability to manage news media.

Richard Lake: Yes, a J4J wheelchair trek across the country has been 
discussed a number of times. But having the same patients go all the way is 
difficult, whereas perhaps the idea of a relay could work. It costs, 
though, so major funders must come on board. Need professionals helping 
with publicity or the trek is just a waste of time (I recall one on the 
east coast that got about zip press, whereas the ones in WI and TX got a 
lot.) Costs about $1000 to $2000 a day to do a trek.

Chris Conrad: What we seek to achieve has to be determined before the 
details can be settled. Is this just a media event or how is it political?

Diane Fornbacher: We should start on the east coast and go west or vice versa??

Chris Conrad: One problem that occurs to me is maintaining a medical supply 
for patients. Hempseed oil would not have that demand.

Diane Fornbacher: we should also visit media offices as well -- so they 
can't claim they didn't know about us

Chris Conrad: Diane, it's probably a matter of simultaneous media focus: 
One march would be covered differently by the local farm journal than by 
the local ADA newsletter, for example. Both, but individual.

Dean Becker: Chris, elected, ministers, any local celebrities, esp if MMJ 

Chris Conrad: Dean, the ministry idea is fantastic. Remember, not all 
personal use is secular.

Chris Conrad: Also, Jesus said all the right things. It's his followers who 
do the wrong thing that concern me.

Chris Conrad: I think that the issues feed off each other, and that 
separation is often treated as disingenuous denial.

Dean Becker: just my opinion, but religion is the only way to win this war, 
show the riches of the Pharmacies, the lies of the Heretics

Chris Conrad: Also, Dean, if you read the story of the Harlot of Babylon in 
Revelation 18-21, that gets spooky.

Chris Conrad: How do we get Christians to challenge the lies that are 
spread from the pulpit?

Richard Lake: Total Distance: 2826.8 miles - SF to DC by freeways. 
Wheelchairs take country roads. 3000 miles minimum. 50 miles per day max. 
distance for patients. 60 days best travel time. Cost $60 to $120 thousand.

Chris Conrad: Ouch! We could get a state initiative passed in Alaska for 
that money.

Dean Becker: I talk to Christians about the drug war all the time, they are 
ready to listen, to change, they see the horror of what we are now doing.

Chris Conrad: But the people who want to give money to a walk may not want 
to fund an initiative. It's a different sector.

Chris Conrad: I sent out a challenge to Christian talk radio shows, and 
none of them took me up on it. Maybe we sould try again.

Al Mites: yes, but one step at a time it is easier to begin education the 
masses about medical use which has already been shown to many and work from 
there than it is to go straight legalization, though if we can achieve them 
at the same time all the better

Chris Conrad: I'd go with people who are experienced with that type of 
organizing, in other words Journey for Justice.

Chris Conrad: For it to work in California would require new legislation 
(impossible) or a new initiative (expensive.

Chris Conrad: The reason Oregon could challenge Ashcroft but not California 
is that CA did not legalize distribution, only possession/cultivation.

Chris Conrad: There is some interest in doing a Prop 215 extension 
initiative, but we're a million dollars or so short....

Trippin981819254: Chris, why wasn't distribution included in CA?

Chris Conrad: Dennis Peron thought that it was covered indirectly, but the 
courts and cops disagreed with him.

Chris Conrad: Also people did not think it would pass with distribution, 
but I disagree and recent non-CA polls seem to support that opinion.

Chris Conrad: In a sense, the more the narcs try to keep Prop 215 from 
working, the more open voters are to expanding it to fix the problems.

Chris Conrad: There weren't problems until the narcs tried to distort the 
law and the courts went along with it.

netizen_james: Not ALL local law enforcement refused to participate in 
questionable raids, as the Kubby's would certainlyt testify.

Chris Conrad: I suspect that Placer county narcs would still join in today, 
but maybe not.

Richard Lake: NORML foundation was the major funder of past patient 
wheelchair treks across OH, WI, FL and a good share in TX (though TX had 
more help than others from other funders). The issue is clearly to find a 
broad base of funding support. I really had to spend a lot of time on 
funding issues for the OH and WI treks, lots of msgs and calls.

Chris Conrad: Good points, Richard. That's why I usually fund my own 
activities and keep the budget to what I can personally afford.

allan: Chris- I really think approaching Art Bell again is a smart move...

Chris Conrad: I'm going to approach him about my new Nostradamus and the 
Attack on NY book, so maybe I can do a double header.

Chris Conrad: Too bad Oprah is only interested in "positive" stories. We 
thought she would like to tell stories from Shattered Lives.

Chris Conrad: Maybe we could get her to put Amy Pofahl on, since her 
release gives a positive spin to a drug war story.

netizen_james: How about a 'positive' Oprah story on the woman that Clinton 
pardoned that was on 'the wall'?

Dean Becker: Chris, would not Oprah then like a positive story on the 
effects of MMJ for a patient or two?

Chris Conrad: Perhaps, Dean. I don't have her ear; I just know that her 
people told us Shattered Lives was not Positive enough.

Chris Conrad: This really points out to me that what we could use is a 
public relations firm for the movement.

Chris Conrad: PRDI [ ] is doing its bit, and 
ReconsiDer [ ] has its speakers bureau booklet 
- -- both are terrific.

Kkraig: Oprah did a do you want to legalize poll and then fixed the results.

Chris Conrad: What do you mean she fixed the results?

Kkraig: 800 votes in 2 minutes.

Chris Conrad: Is Bell's audience as big as before? Is he an independent?

Chris Conrad: Seems like we should have our own media network, but we'd 
need another Ted Turner for that.

Chris Conrad: Our problem is that most people who want us to speak also 
have no money and are not very good at publicity. We did have a great 
presentation at UC Berkeley, thanks to SSDP.

Chris Conrad: Good turnout, too.

Chris Conrad: So, all this having been said, is there something concrete to 
take home with us, or just great brainstorming?

Dean Becker: Is it possible to buy cheap cable time, for select shows with 
say Chris, Judge Gray and others, like a drug talk show?

Chris Conrad: The idea of cable is nice because all we need is one person 
per community to sponsor it, and we can cheaply produce a series of shows.

Chris Conrad: Does cable get enough viewership to carry the day?

Dean Becker: If we do a show with enough bravado, music, comedy and pizzazz 
we can get viewers

Frank: Cable usually offers a community access channel.

Chris Conrad: There is merit to working together, but it's also important 
to seize the moment as individuals. I know you all do this, anyway.

Dean Becker: Yes Chris, but I think we must move soon, they are closing 
more doors every day

Chris Conrad: I think that we have interesting enough info and speakers, 
it's really a matter of access.

Richard Lake: Speaking, demos, treks, etc. require a real effort to insure 
max publicity. Patients on treks need to be briefed and practiced on 
handling interviews, etc. NORML foundation hired a PR firm for the WI trek 
which helped. OTOH some non-patients pushed their way in and caused 
problems for that trek, which left a bad taste for treks for a good while.

Chris Conrad: Yes, Richard, it's difficult for the media to distinguish 
between desperation and just plain whacko activity.

Chris Conrad: Which reminds me, all these Republicans who hated Waco, 
shouldn't they be upset about Tom and Rollie?

Al Mites: of course, but given that its easily shoved under the rug right 
now they dont need to

Chris Conrad: The bottom line is that we have the arguments and we need to 
select the recipients who are both influential and influenceable (sp?).

Chris Conrad: Woody has a hemp suit, he helped fund Hempstead company, and 
he's been pretty selfless in supporting the cause.

Chris Conrad: Some people feel like he should do more, but I say what other 
celebrity has done nearly as much?

Lynn: why not do politically incorrect.....surely someone could do it

Jo-D: Bill Maher finally mentioned WoD for the first time since 911 a 
couple nites ago!

Frank: That was great Jo-D. I thought he had turned into a red-haired, 
non-hearing impaired Limbaugh!

Chris Conrad: The weird thing about Maher is that his Right Wing Republican 
guest said that he supports medical marijuana, and they dropped it instead 
of pursuing the statement. Why?

Chris Conrad: Someone has speculated Maher is concerned about being 
censored again since they did it once.

Chris Conrad: Maher did refer to Todd a few times in passing. 
Unfortunately, Todd shot himself in the foot or he would be the poster boy.

Chris Conrad: It's interesting that Todd's alleged "nemesis" (not the right 
word), Scott Imler had his club raided by the feds.

netizen_james: strong words Chris, how did Todd 'shoot himself in the foot'

Chris Conrad: Todd made a run from the police, which led to the revocation 
of his parole. That's not as easy to rally behind as a patient being 
busted. Also the 4000 plants didn't help. 40 would have been easier to 
explain, although I understand the breeding aspects.

Diane Fornbacher: Chris, do you talk with Woody often?

Chris Conrad: I got a testimonial from Woody for the next edition of "Hemp: 
Lifeline to the Future", but I'm not really into the celebrity chase.

Diane Fornbacher: Nor am I Chris, don't get the wrong impression, I am 
brainstorming here, not celeb chasing,

Chris Conrad: Diane, we need somebody who _is_ into the celebrity chase for 
the cause, not just for their own ego. Wish it could be one of us.

Richard Lake: Chris, you are doing just super responding to the crowd here. 
You have been at it over an hour and a half. You are welcome to stay as 
long as you want, but be warned that this crowd can keep going for two or 
three hours yet if you stay. Feel free to bow out when you need to. We will 
be looking forward to your NYT forum chat on the 28th. A slower chat, but 
you can do much larger blocks of test at one time.

Chris Conrad: Thanks, Richard. Actually I should be going soon; my typo 
rate is climbing, and I still have to read through another court case 
tonight. This expert witness thing is pretty heavy.

Chris Conrad: I see us as patriots rather than celebrities, and most of us 
are "flying under the radar" by organizing around the issue without 
crossing the line into civil disobedience.

Dean Becker: I have tried to get "celebrities" to visit us here and at NY 
Times, they are hard to reach, distracted and probably advised against the 

Chris Conrad: Yeah, Dean. That's the burn. Our issue is sexy ... maybe too 
sexy for most media folks to handle.

Chris Conrad: Thanks everybody, for a delightful orientation into the 
chats. We'll talk soon, eh Dean?

Chris Conrad: I'll keep thinking free. Peace, freedom and justice.

Chris Conrad: Good night. 
- ---
MAP posted-by: Richard Lake