Pubdate: Sun, 23 Sep 2001
Source: The DrugSense Chat Room
Note: This is part of a series of chats being posted to the DrugNews 
clipping service as an exception to policy. All chats are edited into a 
basic question and answer format, leaving out the various side discussions 
in our fast moving chats. However, Jo-D, who usually does the editing, is 
on holiday so we may not have done as well as some previous chats.
Next: Joseph McNamara, visits the New York Times drug policy forum Tuesday 
Sept. 25th 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific at and follows up with a 
visit to the DrugSense Chat Room on Thursday Sept. 27th at the same times. 
Joseph McNamara is a former police chief in Kansas City, Mo. and San Jose, 
Ca.. He holds a doctorate in public administration and is presently a 
research fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution. 80 some items 
about or by Dr. McNamara may be found at plus more in The Schaffer 
Library of Drug Policy at
Cited: Drug Crazy (please sign Mike's guest book)
Common Sense for Drug Policy


Mike_Gray: Hello.  Mike Gray here.

Mike_Gray: What up, as they say?

Dean: What do you think of the congress' new, secret legislation, etc.. big 
question I know

Mike_Gray: Wait a minute.  What secret legislation?

Dean: Hasert has been meeting with Hutchison to formulate new drug laws

Josh: Re Hastert: Hastert 
Forms Task Force On Drugs

Mike_Gray: On terrorism & the drug war, Hutchinson announced congressional 
hearings for next week. The problem they face is that every time they try 
to tighten the screws, they only raise profits for the terrorists.

Richard_Lake: Since most of us have read the NYT chat even if we were not 
there, could you update us on the current status of the CSDP ad idea?

Mike_Gray: On the CSDP ad, we are revising it after a considerable amount 
of input and it will be placed in a few weeks.

kaptinemo: If the Q&A has started, here's mine: MIKE: do you see the 
Federal government attempting to short circuit the drug law reform movement 
via the current attempt by some Fed law enforcement official in equating 
the drug trade to terrorism?

Mike_Gray: I'm sure they're going to try to use 9-11 to ramp up the drug 
war.  We've got good arguments in the works and we should be ready to engage.

Kubby: Just wanted to show my support for Mike Gray

Mike_Gray: Mr. Kubby? That you Steve?

Kubby: Yes Mike, I'm here to show my support and appreciation for all you do.

Mike_Gray: Conversely.

Larry_Stevens: Mike, I'm glad you feel we need to engage on this issue of 
issues, is it prohibition or drugs that fund terrorism?

Mike_Gray: Prohibition, according to the UN, puts $400 billion a year -- 
tax free -- into the hands of the worst people on the planet.  If we 
ratchet up prohibition, the amount will only increaase.

Mike_Gray: According to Interpol, for whatever it's worth, they are 
estimating that a third of the terrorists cash comes from the drug trade.

Debra: Mike, what tactics and strategies do you feel will best move ahead 
the drug reform movement in light of the recent terrorist event?

Kubby: Oil, not drugs, is the engine that fuels terrorism.

Mike_Gray: Steve is right.  Oil is always behind everything one way or 
another.  But the battle we'll be facing with Hastert and the drug warriors 
is that we are traitors to America because we're soft on drugs.

Dean: Mike, would you agree, that it's kind of now or never for the reform 
movement, or can we hang in for a protracted domestic drug war?

Mike_Gray: I think this is a moment of incredible danger and opportunity 
not only for the country but for the drug reform movement.  Don't forget, 
the facts are completely on our side.  The one thing the drug war will not 
withstand is a critical evaluation.

Mike_Gray: If the drug war was ended tomorrow the $400 billion in illegal 
cash would vanish overnight.  What's more you could free up $50 billion in 
enforcement money and all the DEA black bag experts to fight terrorism.

Mike_Gray: Terrorism is a pejorative term that gets in the way of rational 
discussion.  The question we should be asking about these people is why? 
What inspired this level of hatred?

Mike_Gray: The DEA happens to be perfectly suited to fight 
terrorism.  They've got international experience, black bag experts, the 
work undercover, all we need to do is shift their target off little old 
ladies in wheelchairs and onto Osama et al.

Kkraig: How many executions did Kissinger order?

Mike_Gray: Kissinger may yet have to face the judge.

Diane_Fornbacher: Mike, what is your opinion on the "homeland security" 
office? Another ploy to further degrade our privacy?

Mike_Gray: We will get through this.  We've faced worse and come out of it 
stronger.  But the initial reactions on the part of the current 
administration are likely to be counterproductive.

Grandma: Is it true that we sent 43 million to the Talibans to help 
eradicate poppies; and where is this noted in the media?

Mike_Gray: Regarding the $43 million to the Taliban, the late word is that 
it was grain and other credits given to the Taliban as relief aid for the 
drought. If that's the case it's harder to criticize.

Dean: If we were to increase the drug war to the levels they likely want, 
would it not require another 100 billion per year, or more, 10 of thousands 
of agents? When all this could be going to fighting terrorists.. seems like 
they have a pathetic chance of making all this pass citizen muster

Mike_Gray: No question that Ashcroft and others in the administration will 
use this to expand police authority as far as they possibly can.  All we 
can do is stay on top of it as best we can.

Diane_Fornbacher: Mike, are there plans for a Drug Crazy movie? If so, I 
can play an Asian extra free of charge!

Mike_Gray: We are at work on a documentary based on the book.  Things are 
looking good.

Meril: Where can I get the book?

Mike_Gray: You can get Drug Crazy in paperback from Amazon for around 12 
buck I think.

Richard_Lake: Robert Scheer's May 22 syndicated column, which claims the 
United States is the main sponsor of the Taliban militia in Afghanistan as 
archived at A letter to 
the editor from Alan W. Eastham, Acting Assistant Secretary for South Asia, 
State Dept., Washington titled "Aid for Afghanistan, Not the Taliban" which 
references and sharply disagrees with the column is at

"P": Mike , When we met in Iowa, you thought we had a long way to go. Since 
this 9 11 incident how do you feel about our standing ?

Mike_Gray: There's no doubt the 9-11 incident changes everything.  We have 
to be focused on riding this wave or it could swamp us.  Once again, it's a 
moment of incredible opportunity because we have all the facts.

Kkraig: Mike, Who but our government has the power to control the drug 
profits? i.e., CIA

Mike_Gray: Drug profits follow the law of supply and demand.  It's the 
free-market capitalists dream -- totally unregulated.

Mike_Gray: The drug war facilitates terrorism in a number of 
ways.  Smuggling as as useful to gun merchants as it is to drug lords but 
the drug cartels have perfected the art.

Mike_Gray: The good news is we'll get through this.  Let's face it, we've 
been totally asleep for the last 10 years while the stock market made 
everybody apparently rich and all we cared about was the President's 
dick.  Well, we can't get by with that anymore.

Diane_Fornbacher: Oh my, Mike!

Lindy: Well said...

Mike_Gray: This is a moment exactly like the death of JFK.  The country was 
forced to grow up overnight.  Patrick Moynahan's secretary said, "We'll 
never be young and happy again." Moynahan said, "We'll be happy again.  But 
we'll never be young again."

Larry_Stevens: Mike, has the Johnson/Hutchison debate been completely swept 
aside by events, or will it ever see the light of day?

Mike_Gray: Swept aside by events.

Mike_Gray: Timing is everything.

Debra: Mike, what can we best do at this time to push forward our agenda?

Mike_Gray: Remain on the alert for our opponent's next move.  Stay on top 
of the letters to the editor.  Don't give the bastards an inch.

Kkraig: Mike, Why were there no Israelis in the wtc?

Mike_Gray: I doubt that's true.

Mike_Gray: There were people there from 80 countries.  Surely Israel was 

Diane_Fornbacher: Mike, when do you anticipate the documentary's debut?

Mike_Gray: If all goes well, we'll be interviewing you and everyone else in 
the movement before next summer with a view to air in 12 months.

Mike_Gray: We will have advanced screenings for the movement in various cities.

Diane_Fornbacher: Mike: do you know how very much you are loved and 

Mike_Gray: Diane, that's the sweetest thing anybody's said in a while.  Grazzi.

allan: Mike- will your documentary include stories about the demise of Hemp 
Fests, re rainbow Farm, Conde, and Rainbow valley?

Mike_Gray: The Drug Crazy documentary will follow the general outline of 
the book.  It will begin with a bust just like COPS but we will follow the 
bustee rather than the buster.  Then we'll cruise through the criminal 
justice system etc.  We'll take you to UK, Holland, etc where you can hear 
for yourself from the government's top officials.  We'll treat the history 
of prohibition just like Ken Burns.

Larry_Stevens: Can't wait to see it!

kaptinemo: MIKE: thank you for all you've done; I've a copy of your book 
and it was immensely helpful in arguing with our opponents...aside from 
being eminently readable :)

"P": Drug Crazy sits on my livening room table. For all who visit to see 
and peruse.

allan: Mike- also, do you as a journalist use the MAP archives as a resource?

Mike_Gray: Regarding the MAP archive, it's a godsend.  Richard Lake and 
Mark Greer and Matt Elrod and all the volunteers have done an incredible 
service to the movement.  If MAP had existed when I started Drug Crazy it 
would have saved me a year.

Debra: Three cheers for MAP.

allan: Woohoo!

kaptinemo: OO-RAH!

a-b-seeds: hip hip hourra

kudra: cheers

Richard_Lake: *blush*

Lindy: Bravo!

Dean: YES!

Larry_Stevens: Nourishment for the soul, thanks Mike!

Diane_Fornbacher: MAP rules

allan: seriously rules!

allan: in all my wwweb travels I have never seen anything even like MAP in 
its scope and volume...

kaptinemo: viva la mota libre! :)

Mike_Gray: I have to hit that lonesome trail.  I'm working on an op-ed 
about the connection between the drug war and terrorism.  Thanks for your 
thoughts and your encouragement.

allan: Give 'em heck Mike!

Debra: Thanks so much Mike.

kaptinemo: Many, many thanks for stopping by...and hope to see you again

observer: thank you Mike !! :-)

Richard_Lake: Thank you so much for being here, Mike. Please drop in any time!

Kkraig: Thank You Mike Gray..

Lindy: Thanks Mike.

unknown: peace mike

allan: And thank you very much. Your efforts are awesome as well!

unknown: Thanks again Mike!!!

Dean: Mike, thank you sir!

Mike_Gray: Once again, thanks to all the MAP volunteers.  Keep up the great 

Diane_Fornbacher: In light Mike

Debra: Yes, thanks MAP and thanks Dean.

Richard_Lake: This chat is a follow up to the excellent NYT drug policy 
forum chat archived at

Dean: Be sure to join with Dr. Joe McNamara on the NY Times Drug Forum, 
Tues. at 8PM EDT and here on THURSDAY at 8 PM
- ---
MAP posted-by: Richard Lake