Pubdate: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 Source: The DrugSense Chat Room Website: http://www.drugsense.org/chat/ Note: The chat room has long been the most popular chat meeting place for internet DPR activists. While the room is always open, regular chats have been held for years on Saturday and Sunday evenings starting at 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific. Note: This is part of a series of chats being posted to the DrugNews clipping service as an exception to policy. All chats are edited into a basic question and answer format, leaving out the various side discussions in our fast moving chats. Next: Mark Greer, the executive director of DrugSense and the Media Awareness Project visits the New York Times drug policy forum Tues. Sept. 4 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific at http://forums.nytimes.com/comment/index-national.html and follows up with a visit to the DrugSense Chat Room on Sunday, Sept. 9 at the same times. Please: see http://www.cultural-baggage.com/schedule.htm for details about all future guests. TRANSCRIPT: JEFF JONES VISITS THE DRUGSENSE CHAT ROOM Dean - Jeff, what do you deduce from the international happenings? Is prohibition on the run? Jeff - Yes, I feel that it may just be around the corner here in the USA to be debated? But it up to us to control the debate. Dean - What would you recommend to control the debate? Jeff - That's were the online Reform movement comes in to assist in being clear about what our message is. With respect to medical cannabis it may be easier then we think. Dean - How so? Easier than we think? Jeff - I don't know what it will take to reform our Nixon, laws around cannabis, but we should just keep trying to get our message out. Jeff - I find the voice against medical cannabis to be uninformed and quick to rely on information that has been outdate or is not replicatable. The online community has built information libraries that just need to be sited and used more often by the press. Dean - I have seen postings, urging the same thing for Gov Johnson next week Jeff - I find the debate next week to set the stage for what we can expect out of the DEA, the same or different approach only time will tell. Steven - Hi Jeff. I'm a Federal exemptee here in Canada. We Have our "compassion clubs" up here. I was told the Oakland Buyers club depended on donations of various types and the cost to the client is minimal, is this true? Jeff - Right know we are not dispensing medical cannabis due to federal court order, but when we were the price was as reasonable as federal prohibition would allow. Jeff - We also are able to focus know on getting as many patients as we can to grow their own medicine. Jeff - That depends on what kind of facility your part of. They may have more over head then that (10%) Jeff - We have meetings here at the OCBC twice a month to teach patients how to grow cheaply on their own. Laura - Garden Valley AMMA has grow classes on Saturdays at the Grange hall Jo-D - Jeff, how come the CSA was not challenged as unconstitutional at the supreme court? Jo-D - for your case... Jeff - This will be coming up in our next rounds of briefings, soon to be filed Jo-D - Jeff, so briefings for when you come back in front of CA courts? Jeff - Yes, We will be briefing the federal court on remand from the US Supreme Court May 15 ruling. Laura - Jeff remand? Jeff - US Supreme Court remanded our case back to lower court for further proceedings in this case. Jeff - The more we focus on patients growing their own the lower the cost for all those patients that collective organize. observer - Jeff Any response to the Jamaican Prime Minister's statement last week he finds "persuasive" the arguments to stop jailing adult users of cannabis? And do you think events in Jamaica are being under-reported (or suppressed) here in the US ? Jeff - Two of the biggest things to happen for the medical cannabis movement have been the Jamaican Plan to Legalize Private Use of Marijuana, and move by Canadian federal authorities in regulation of production of medical cannabis and exemptions for Canadian medical cannabis users. This could topple our US Zero Tolerant policy for medical cannabis. Laura - Jeff can you bring up individual medical necessity at that point? Jeff - The Medical necessity defense may not be the best defense for all patients. We are working on Constitutional JayB - Jeff, Whassup with the Oakland city council cutting the plant number in half? Arbitrary posturing? Jeff - The Oakland City Council wanted to cut our plant #'s and cap how many patients a Caregiver could care for collectively. We compromised to cut our current limits in half, still protecting about 80% of our patients base production. Laura - I think we should give serious thought to per square foot for yield rather than plant count Jo-D - Laura, that's what Sonoma has Jeff - Yes we are working to get the Sonoma Guideline past at the County level here in the Oakland East Bay area. Laura - another jury trial in N. California found not guilty - 89 plants Jo-D - sure gave me hope here in San Luis county! Jeff - It is great to see so many patients having the court systems work in there favor. Laura - They only want limits so they can still assault us if their 'count' is wrong or exaggerated Laura - Jeff do you have any idea when you will be back in court? Jeff - Soon we should file our response to the US Supreme Court ruling. It may be until next year before we orally arguments happen with our case. JayB - Jeff, the next round will be in the 9th Circuit, for review. Jeff - I can't comment yet on what court will be filing in, just that it will be soon and we feel hopeful of getting some positive feedback from the courts. seaofgreen - do you in Oakland offer supply of extractions Jeff - The more potent the mix, the more effective it will be to any patient, unless they want small doses. Laura - Jeff is there any particular place we can write letters that would help? Jeff - Well it hard to say with letters, you usually don't get through to the Judges. Letters might be best at the local level. Unless we want to focus our effort on the Federal Gov. Laura - Jeff it is at the fed level that the change must happen for us all to be safe Jeff - Yes of Course Jeff - We have had bad law since Nixon Jeff - We must work to change this NOW. Jeff - When will it be less costly or easier to change the federal law. We have just had a European report come out that states we can change our cannabis laws without messing up the UN Treaties. Ann - I read something recently about vaporizers and how it extracts the THC. It said that what is left can be reused for folks who do not benefit from THC but from other cannibanoids in the plant. Have you ever tried applying that theory? Jeff - Yes Vaporizers work very well and some offer temperature controls to adjust it to the right setting. Jeff - The best Vaporizers pass heat air through the ground up cannabis, in a sense boiling out the cannaibiniods for your use safely without smoke. Jeff - There seems to be a lot left to learn about the mysterious cannabis plant. Jeff - Keep producing... Laura - Jeff if only a quarter of the money had been spent on research Jeff - Quarter of what money? Laura - Jeff all the money spent on interdiction for instance Laura - or jailing sick people Ann - Think of how things would be if we hadn't spent (and continue to spend) so much on prohibition Jeff - Yes that would be very beneficial for use but not for many large drug Companies. Dean - Jeff, in Oakland, a public consciousness has brought about the MMJ movement, here in TX, it is still scary, how can we safely alert patients that help is available? Jeff - By visiting support groups and being the one to mention this as a treatment option. It is surprising how fast things will get around if you talk with the right circles of patients. Jeff - We started out here in Oakland as a bicycle delivery service that couldn't keep up with our orders. So we changed formats and operated more like a low cost pharmacy at the end. Ann - Jeff, now that a few months have passed, has the SC ruling made any kind of impact or created a change in attitude or practice in Oakland? Jeff - Except for our guideline changing not really. ann - Has it emboldened law enforcement Jeff - Yes it has caused law enforcement to react childishly and arrest some patients. Most of these cases have end positively for our side, much to the dismay of law enforcement Laura - Jeff to me the SC screamed out to the congress to change what they could not Jeff - It seems that Bush is waiting to see what to do, maybe hoping for a sure fix to the problem his dad created by taking away the only legal supply to patients. Richard_Lake - Links Oakland Cannabis Buyers' Cooperative http//www.rxcbc.org/ http//www.mapinc.org/ocbc.htm (Oakland Cannabis Court Case) Jeff - Our case rulings can be found at www.druglibrary.org/ocbc Jeff - Didn't see Blown Away, Good or Bad? wat - Jeff-long on problems, short on solutions. Laura - I thought it was good and taped it Dean - they have to insert some prohib stuff to justify the program, it was good Jeff - I thought the ABC News piece overall was good some minor problems but good for National news. Steven - The poll results were outstanding Laura - Our DEA in Vancouver? seaofgreen - DEA opening offices here seaofgreen - mj political party been protesting ann - US DEA in BC??? That is sooooooo wrong. Why is Canada letting the? seaofgreen - our police hate it too Richard_Lake - Links to just a couple of a dozen or so items about the DEA in B.C. http//www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n1176/a06.html http//www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n1234/a09.html Dean - Jeff, I saw that story of the DEA agent trying to register and you exposed him to the media, is that true? Jeff - Yes, we got lucky and got a DEA agent trying to gain access to our facility and caught him in the elevator for a brief memorable moment. Jeff - Back in May 1998 the DEA wanted us closed and proceeding to try to interrupt a press conference we were holding. We found out about this agent and exposed him to over 5 news stations that were in our office. He was out of his element, and left quickly. Christian - Jeff, what's the situation in Oakland now? Jeff - Not much has happen here since the US Supreme Court ruling. We are still open validating patients right to use cannabis under CA law. "g" - Jeff, how many clubs followed your example and joined forces with city gov.? Jeff - Not to many maybe only here in the Bay Area. BigBong - Jeff how many hours a day do you spend "on-line?" Jeff - I spend about two to three hours online a day, depending on the day, less on the weekends. BigBong - how much of your time do you spend web surfing - as opposed to reading/answering email - and have you ever visited www.bigbongburgerbar.com ? Jeff - equal time maybe between surfing and answering mail. Christian - Jeff, has the higher allowed plant # affected the street price? Jeff - It seems that the price limits in the Bay Area are only affected by the time of year, higher price and harder to find cannabis during the time right before the outdoor harvests. "g" - Jeff , just how did the city council lower the amount of plants ? what pretense? Jeff - Out of fear they lowered the guidelines here in Oakland. There was not much I could do to stop this from happening it seems. We didn't address limits on caregivers just that they need to post notes of patients they are providing for. "g" - Sorry to hear that Jeff. they were afraid the very people who set the limits would attack them for using their formula. Jeff - Common Sense didn't enter into much of the discussing with the City of Oakland. They feared big growers moving into town and providing cannabis to the street market. Christian - Jeff, when is the next city council election? "g" - Jeff, exactly why a club is the better answer. Jeff - What do you mean a better answer? then what? federal regulation? Jo-D - Jeff, I think g was making a statement...not a ? ;) "g" - Jeff, yes, statement. Clubs are sensible answer to all the irrational fear. BigBong - all of our medicinal marijuana clubs are operating from underground at the moment Jeff - Not all, Some in San Francisco, have complete support of their DA. seaofgreen - are mj clubs are operating fully Jeff - Yes, but not in the press, and only to help their member/patients. Jeff - Not openly in the Press Christian - Jeff, any sense if the feds are holding off because of the political fallout? If there is anything afoot? San Francisco, Hallinan is a blessing. Jeff - Yeap, Seem that there may be a DEA or FBI follow-up investigation that is ongoing at this time. Dean - Jeff, tell us of the festival, the "mood" you felt while there. Jeff - I attended the medical cannabis summit in BC and then went to the Hempfest. Jeff - I found the BC event to be very interesting, the Canadians are quickly going to be ahead of the US in research and maybe on broader policy soon. Jeff - The structure is different in Canada, they want full decriminalization. They are just seem impatient, but things are moving fast up there. Jeff - I found the summit to be more a meet and greet and some had louder voices than others. Laura - it does seem harder to get a recommendation up in Can. though Jeff - No the groups up there support other types of doctors not just MD like here in CA. Jeff - Herbalist Naturalpathy and others, they feel these doctors are more in touch with your body and use of substances. "g" - But as much good as we hear from Canada, Still only 200 exemptions. now takes 2 doctor opinions. No new legals that I know of since redefined law became relevant. Jeff - I've heard more than 300 have been approved and roughly 500 waiting to get approved. Those numbers here in the US means tens of thousands getting exemptions. "g" - all the approvals are the original ones Jeff. same for apps. they are stonewalling right now. Last demand was all patients have to let them read their med records. Jeff - From what I heard most group up in Canada don't support the federal program so there numbers may not be realistic in what population is using medical cannabis. Ann - I agree with the Denis Peron theory, "All marijuana use is medicinal" (even when the patient doesn't realize it ;-) Jeff - Point well taken Jeff - I just want to say that it is up to all of us to continue this struggle till the end. Free Todd M. and Renee. B. from federal harassment. We will overcome!! Jeff - I agree with the cave grow. It's a bad idea. They should be growing outside to keep the prices down in the long run. Jeff - I should sign off now. Is there a last minute question or two. BigBong - will you be coming back Jeff? Jeff - Of course, I am far more a lurker than a poster but I am getting better. Christian - Jeff, what kind of help do you need? Jeff - I need to get more federal pressure to change the Nixon laws that we are all still dealing with. Ann - Quick question - define 'federal pressure' what can we DO Jeff - Everything we all can do to make there life in federal offices not bearable until they change this outdated and unjust law. Jeff - There is not one easy answer, if there was we would be talking about what next to change. Richard_Lake - Thank you so much for visiting with us, Jeff! Dean - Jeff, I thank you for your patience and your time. You always show yourself as a great person. Ann - Thank you Jeff, good hearing from you. Amanda - An honor to meet you, Jeff. "g" - See you soon Jeff. BigBong - nice meeting you Jeff, hope to see you again Christian - Jeff, we'll work on it from here and try to keep the network growing. .keep in touch. .thanks for being there Jeff - Till next time, Keep fighting the good fight... Working to defund the DEA sooner rather than later. "g" - Jeff, Would you consider a patients walk across U.S, something you could support. People from all over, Oakland to DC. Jeff - Yes but it has to be done correctly or it could get us bad press. Which we don't need anymore of. till next time. Goodnight All. - --- MAP posted-by: Richard Lake