Pubdate: Tue, 19 Jun 2001
Source: Fox News Network (US)
Show: Hannity & Colmes
Copyright: 2001 Fox News Network, Inc.
Hosts: Alan Colmes, Sean Hannity
Guests: Barbara Harris, Lynn Gold Bikin
Cited: C.R.A.C.K.


HANNITY: As we continue on HANNITY & COLMES, coming up next, we'll
talk to Fox News political analyst Dick Morris.

And then, tonight, I go one-on-one with President Clinton's former
national economic advisor Gene Sperling. We'll talk about energy and
some other matters.

And in the "Battle Zone" on this Tuesday, should a drug-addicted
mother of 13 be allowed to have more children? A group called Children
Requiring a Caring Community says that it will pay this woman and any
other drug-addicted mother to stop having children. To get the money,
the mother must prove she's gotten a tubal ligation or some other form
of long-term birth control. But would the money be spent better on
some type of drug-treatment program?

Joining us from Los Angeles, Barbara Harris. She is the founder of
this group, C.R.A.C.K., Children Requiring a Caring Community. And
from Philadelphia, attorney Lynn Gold Bikin is with us.

Just to point out, to establish your credentials, Barbara, you
yourself have -- as part of this effort, you have adopted four crack-
addicted babies yourself.

BARBARA HARRIS, C.R.A.C.K.: Right. We adopted four out of eight born
to one addict.

HANNITY: This particular woman in the article today in "The Detroit
Free News -- Free Press" -- she gave birth to 13 of these kids. Most
of them were drug addicted?

HARRIS: Right. Five or six were drug addicted. The last baby she had
in April...

HANNITY: Yeah. Died.

HARRIS: ... was born addicted and died after being on life support for
two weeks.

HANNITY: I remember some -- a couple of years ago, we interviewed you
when you had first started this program. The first 95 women that you
paid -- correct me if I'm wrong -- had a total of -- 95 women now had
a total of 675 pregnancies, 243 abortions, 433 kids were born, 67
died, 265 ended in foster care, and many of them, again, drug addicted.

HARRIS: Right. Those are correct.

HANNITY: Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about the program. What --
you're not forcing anybody, but you're offering an alternative as a
means of preventing other children from being born addicted to drugs.

HARRIS: Right.

HANNITY: It's a choice you offer people.

HARRIS: Right. We just offer a cash incentive to women who are drugs
or alcoholics to use long-term birth control in the hopes of
preventing damaged babies from being born, and it's their choice. They
have a choice of whether they take us up on the offer or not and what
type of birth control they use.

HANNITY: Lynn, I got to say -- I mean -- you know what? Who wants
these kids to be born and -- and -- basically, I consider it, in the
case of this woman, murder, I consider it in the case -- abuse beyond
anything else. I think we all -- also ought to consider criminal
charges against women who use drugs when they're pregnant, but do you
have any problems with Barbara's plan?

LYNN GOLD BIKIN, ATTORNEY: Look, let me say something to you. I don't
have any problems with anybody doing something voluntarily. Certainly,
the law should not be behind this.


BIKIN: But, look -- you know, look, from a legal point of view, I'm
going to tell you that I don't think that they can force someone to do
what she's doing. From a practical point of view, certainly, we ought
to be looking at people who have babies that shouldn't or can't afford
to have them. I'm a little bit saddened that we're only looking at the

COLMES: Well, that's a good point.

Barbara, this is Alan. Lynn, this is Alan.

Barbara -- I have no question, Barbara, that your heart

HARRIS: Our program is...

COLMES: I'm sorry. Ma'am?

HARRIS: ... available -- we pay men as well. We've paid five men to
have a vasectomy.

COLMES: Five men compared to hundreds of women, but...

HARRIS: Yes. Right.

COLMES: I don't doubt -- I don't doubt, Barbara, that your heart's in
the right place. However, I don't like the message this sends out.
You're buying off women basically to trade their fertility for a few
measly dollars, and they're giving away their fertility in the
process. Doesn't that trouble you?

HARRIS: That -- that's only if they get a tubal ligation. That's their
choice, and...

COLMES: Well, that's what this woman did who had had 13

HARRIS: Right.

BIKIN: But here you had this woman...

HARRIS: And she's had 13 children.

BIKIN: You're not helping her. Yeah, but you're not helping her. You
know, if -- if you take some of that money and put it into a drug-
treatment program, if you'd start to prevent some of these people from
having children, not only the women but the men as well, without
thoughts of marriage or without thoughts of education, that, to me,
makes more sense than paying this lady to have her tubes tied.

COLMES: Barbara, let me ask you another question. I know -- in this --
this woman who had...

HARRIS: Well, we do offer -- we offer these...

COLMES: Barbara, let me...

HARRIS: ... women drug treatment if they want it.

COLMES: Good. That's good to know.

HARRIS: We also counsel them, so -- that's something that she doesn't

COLMES: Barbara, let me -- let me get out a question if I can. I know
that this woman who had the 13 kids has a fath -- there's a father to
those kids. His name is Keith Foster. What about the rights of the
male partners of these women who are getting tubal ligations and being
paid to stop producing kids? What about the rights of the men?

HARRIS: Actually, that's not the man that she's with. That's just the
father of some of her children.

COLMES: All right. Well, still, do these fathers have rights as

HARRIS: As far as?

COLMES: As far as determining whether or not they -- women get to
reproduce, whether -- what happens to them...

HARRIS: Well, it's...

COLMES: ... whether they take part in these programs if they're in a
relationship with these men?

HARRIS: It's -- it's a woman's choice, right? Isn't abortion the same
way? Do the fathers have a say in whether they get an abortion?

COLMES: Lynn, what is your response?

BIKIN: In terms of whether the fathers have a say in abortion? I -- I
happen to be a pro-choice person, but I certainly believe that a
choice of a couple as to whether or not this woman has a tubal
ligation ought to be made jointly if they're a couple.

HARRIS: Right. And most of them are -- most of the women that come to
our program are not a couple. They're -- most of them are single, have
10 babies by 10 different fathers. It's not a normal

BIKIN: But, Barbara, what happens after that?

HANNITY: We've got to -- we've got to run, ladies.

Lynn, good to see you.

Barbara, as always, thank you for your time.

I like Alan's idea. The right of the men when women have abortion.
You're coming to my side. Welcome to...

COLMES: Well, I think that both partners in the relationship have

HANNITY: Men -- the father should have a say if a woman wants an

COLMES: And -- yes. It should be pro-choice for both,


COLMES: All right. There's where I lose you. OK. Go

HANNITY: All right. 
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